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Hancock & Hellboy 2

  • Jul. 13th, 2008 at 8:45 AM
Dancing Skeletons
I do not understand the confusion surrounding Hancock. I did not see/sense/feel a change in tone at any point during the film. I did not feel the film "get darker" as it progressed. In fact, both [info]mnight and I predicted a much darker ending. We didn't get it, but we were both happy with the results. I didn't feel the reveal was over-the-top or ill-fitting. It made perfect sense to me. I guess I'm a mutant. It's a great and tragic love story worthy of the pages of a Marvel comic.  I was highly pleased and even choked up at the end. 

I liked Hellboy and predicted I would also like Hellboy 2. The film begins with a brilliant bed-time story about the end of the world. It charmed me right off the top. I can honestly say that those seven or so minutes bought off any sins the rest of the movie may have had. Fortunately, it had none. Demonstrating a key understanding of what makes faerie tales work, Del Toro and Mignola created a post-modern story that fits right in with a great tradition of faerie tales. I was giddy all the way through. 

Both Hancock and Hellboy 2 are worth your consideration.

Comments

[info]tundra_no_caps wrote:
Jul. 13th, 2008 04:54 pm (UTC)
Well, Del Toro did only recently create the fairy tale Pan's Labyrinth.

Hellboy 2, hmmmmm. Thursday and it's here. I hope.
[info]tashiro wrote:
Jul. 13th, 2008 05:19 pm (UTC)
My wife and I both enjoyed Hellboy II, and considered it better than the first one. (I didn't like the 'monster fight' at the end of Hellboy I, myself)

Hancock - I want to see it. My wife's 'eh, wait for the PPV'. Ah well.
[info]daogre wrote:
Jul. 13th, 2008 05:26 pm (UTC)
I don't get why people were so down on Hancock. I wonder if it was people being jaded/not giving it a chance or something, but several of my friends vehemently hated it. I really enjoyed it throughout, and I totally got choked up too.

If you haven't seen Kung Fu Panda yet you really should. Like, a lot.
[info]innocent_man wrote:
Jul. 13th, 2008 08:49 pm (UTC)
I'm starting to think that the folks who didn't like Hancock just didn't get it, but as I haven't seen it yet, I don't know. I'm starting to feel it might still be worth my time, however.
[info]wickedthought wrote:
Jul. 13th, 2008 09:22 pm (UTC)
If you like Myth (not myth, but Myth), it is worth your time.
[info]jdurall wrote:
Jul. 14th, 2008 04:19 am (UTC)
I certainly "got" Hancock, but I didn't think it was particularly good.

It felt like two films got sort of crushed together... the first half was a black comedy about the theme of "superhero as jerk", and the second half was devoid of humor and seemed almost entirely about a mythic backstory that made the one from Highlander 2 seem well-reasoned. The massive plot holes in the second half didn't help matters much.

It was enjoyable in the way that junk food sometimes is, and technically well-made and full of charismatic actors and big-budget action sequences, but in this summer of superhero movies, it's definitely playing second-fiddle to films like Iron Man and Hellboy 2.
[info]116degrees wrote:
Jul. 13th, 2008 11:41 pm (UTC)
I swear Del Toro or Mignola is a gamer, from Hellboy 1 theres the Call of Cthuhlu refernces, and Hellboy 2 is White Wolf's Changeling brought to the big screen.
[info]darransims wrote:
Jul. 15th, 2008 05:08 am (UTC)
Mignola did do some Dragonewt drawings for Chaosium as his first illustration gig in 1982.

They were in 'Wyrms Footnotes 14'.
[info]terribleangel wrote:
Jul. 13th, 2008 11:42 pm (UTC)
I haven't seen Hancock, but I'd like to.

Hellboy 2 on the other hand, I completely disagree with you. I felt the movie was absolutely awful. The acting struck me as forced and stilted. I felt none of the emotional connection or depth that I saw in the first movie. For example, in the first movie, when one of the Agents died terribly, Hellboy was distraught and upset. This time, an Agent gets devoured right before his eyes, and he regarded it with a "Oh, well, another Red Shirt down" type expression. I felt all darkness and creepiness (OMG clockwork Nazi) was replaced with Kookines (with all the Wacky Creatures in the BRPD, I felt like I was suddenly watching Men in Black). It totally killed the feel for me.
[info]brahman_atman wrote:
Jul. 14th, 2008 02:18 am (UTC)
These are closer to my own feelings on Hellboy 2. There's a good movie buried somewhere inside HB2, but del Toro smothered it with inconsistent tone, rickety plotting, and that horrible singing scene.

I'm a big fan of Pan's Labyrinth. He's the writer/direct of of Pan's and is obviously capable of avoiding the faults I list above. HB2 feels very undisciplined by comparison, as if Migola (co-writer on the story) or the studio kept forcing changes on him that he couldn't refuse.
[info]terribleangel wrote:
Jul. 14th, 2008 02:50 am (UTC)
Yeah, I'm completely confused on how del Toro went from Pan's Labryinth to that.
[info]enochs_fable wrote:
Jul. 14th, 2008 12:41 pm (UTC)
I thought a snippet of that singing scene would have been fine - it was pretty funny.

That being said, they really were inconsistent with tone and characters - Krausse was all ORDNUNG! until zap! SCREW PROTOCOL! The bit about the downed agents was really shocking - it was a great horror scene - but then nobody cared.

One of my big complaints was that while I love del Toro's sense of creepy and monstrous, it felt like they were throwing everything they could at every possible frame, filling it up with frenetic CGI until you could barely track what was going on. That works for a few scenes, but way too many were like that. I liked the idea of the forest god, but it ended up being Just Another Monster Cameo. Bang, headshot, there you go.

And anyone else wonder why the princess was so insipidly passive?

Meh.
[info]brahman_atman wrote:
Jul. 14th, 2008 10:00 pm (UTC)
I agree that there was a terrible amount of CGI bloat and frame-packing. One of the charms of Pan's Labyrinth was that we saw clearly Del Toro's creepy, monstrous imagination without all the baroque touches which littered Hellboy 2. The Troll Market scene bordered on the unwatchable because of all that was going on in the frame.

In a way, Del Toro created the same problem that action directors cause with close-up "shaky cam" work. There's so much motion and activity that you can't see the forest for the trees.
[info]seankreynolds wrote:
Jul. 14th, 2008 07:03 pm (UTC)
Well, I enjoyed Hancock. I didn't know about any of the twists beforehand and I accepted them all as they appeared.
[info]talkingturkey wrote:
Jul. 14th, 2008 08:25 pm (UTC)
I'm with everyone else on Hancock, with the caveat that it would have benefited from a bit more movie. A little more explanation and another 10 minutes or so of film and it may have been perfect.

HB2 however was a train-wreck. It suffered from poor plot, terrible holes and resolution issues. After all, if Liz could melt the Crown, the movie was over at the point when they met the princess...

"Here's the piece my brother needs."

"**Liz melts crown fragment**"

"Cool, the Golden Army can't rise, let's go get some beers and you and Abe can hold hands."

Movie ends.

It offended me as a storyteller and GM.
[info]wickedthought wrote:
Jul. 14th, 2008 08:28 pm (UTC)
I'm with everyone else on Hancock, with the caveat that it would have benefited from a bit more movie. A little more explanation and another 10 minutes or so of film and it may have been perfect.

Metachlorians.

After all, if Liz could melt the Crown, the movie was over at the point when they met the princess...

Did you know Liz could melt the crown? I didn't. Nor did the Princess.
[info]brahman_atman wrote:
Jul. 14th, 2008 09:56 pm (UTC)
But apparently Liz knew all along. After all, there wasn't any exposition (that I recall) which suggested that Liz didn't have the power to melt the crown. At the end of the movie, she just snags and slags it without missing a beat (spoiler alert?). Maybe it didn't occur to the character until after the big Golden Army fight. That's just sloppy plotting. When we stop to consider why she didn't do that back at BPRD HQ, we must invoke considerable hand-waving. I can appreciate that a fairy tale gets lots of leeway when it comes to realism. But Del Toro didn't properly sell me the fairy tale up until that point, leaving me disinclined to excuse his hand-waving.
[info]brahman_atman wrote:
Jul. 14th, 2008 10:04 pm (UTC)
Wait, I think I see your criticism better after a moment's thought. If Liz didn't know that she was in the presence of the crown fragment while at BPRD HQ and if the Princess didn't know that Liz was a pyrokinetic, then it makes sense for Liz not to have slagged the crown fragment earlier. Neither of them knew what the other had or was capable of.

Abe Sapien had all the knowledge (presence of crown fragment and Liz as firestarter), but couldn't get Liz to slag the fragment because he wanted to ensure the return of the Princess through its ransom.

I retract most of my criticism above, except for the broader sentiment about me being hostile to (other parts of the) movie because Del Toro didn't sell it to me. :p
[info]talkingturkey wrote:
Jul. 15th, 2008 08:35 pm (UTC)
response
MCs? Now that's just too far... (kidding). But what I meant about Hancock (because I really did enjoy it) is that the story probably left some people cold with the sudden "we're gods" bit. It was a short movie (about 1:30) and I think as a good movie, a little more might have been better.

As for Hellboy, in all seriousness, I recognize that they did have the whole, hiding the crown bit and everything, but Brahman Atman sums it up for me... the rest of the movie completely failed to sell me and then that bit at the end just let all the remaining air out... so that was just my one example in the interest of brevity... which, since that's now out the window. Flashy special effects replacing plot overrode any ability to draw me into the story. Kinda like the SW Prequel trilogy you mentioned above. The movie did have a few nice moments weighed down by a lot of weakness.
[info]wickedthought wrote:
Jul. 15th, 2008 09:26 pm (UTC)
Re: response
The movie failed to sell you but it didn't fail to sell me.

How can that be?
[info]giddoen wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2008 06:29 pm (UTC)
Hancock and HB2...
Hancock gve mea great sense of "going to the movies!" which is what I want from a movie!!! I delivered and I enjoyed the plot twist half way thru the movie!

HB2...have not seen but me and a buddy watched the first one tongiht so I think we may go see HB2 today.

Giddoen